A major task would be negotiating water rights. Much of the water for use in the central valley comes from counties in northern California. The main canal bringing water to Los Angeles area goes through central valley. Water from the Colorado River is also divided between Los Angeles and other cities that would be in South California. The other water supply for Los Angeles comes down from the Owens Valley, East of the Sierras. There would have to be a lot of negtiation about water rights and dividing the supply.

Given the devastating impacts of the State of California's negligence and seemingly purposeful rush away from anything resembling fiscal responsibility, I believe ALL solutions should be on the table. To that end I applaud Supervisor Stone for having the courage to step up. Without question, the State's continual attempts to undermine local government, balancing their irresponsible fiscal policies on the backs of fiscally responsible cities and counties has got to stop. This latest 'budget' not only breaks several laws and violates the State Constitution, it puts a risk public safety and services on the local level. In some cases it even threatens the viability of several city's very existance! It is perhaps time we brought State Government a little closer to us. If we have more of a chance to run into our legislators in the proverbial grocery store, perhaps they would think twice about ignoring us in the capital. Whether this is an idea whose time has come is a question. But it is definitely time to ask the question. To that end, I am on board...

It's interesting how some posters here want to blame democrats and liberals for the states woes while perhaps forgetting our last Gov was a Republican who failed miserably

I am on board and commend Supervisor Stone for daring to bring this proposal for consideration. Our dear State of California is crying out for desperate measures, before it's too late. Enough is enough.

Just sitting here reading my Constitution of the United States. It says here in Article IV, Section 3: "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State..."

Therefore, Mr. Stone would have to convice two-thirds of both houses of Congress, and three-quarters of all the State legislatures, to amend the Constitution, and cut California into two States.

I too am frustrated with the Governor and the Democrat-controlled California Legislature. However, this idea is a non-starter and a complete waste of time. It is not even helpful as a rhetorical tool. Our problems are not related to geography, they are related to policy and politics. All this idea does is create divisiveness between Northern and Southern California. Moreover, it severly diminishes Mr. Stone's credibility as a thoughtful, well-reasoned elected official.

"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A4Sec3.html

I do not read where it takes a 2/3 vote. The reference also appears to address the joining of lands within 2 states, not the formation of a new state from withing the same state.

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Formation of a new state of South California may not come to fruition, but it is a movement by clear thinking people that there are costs associated with the "feel good" programs California has instituted. Prosperity does not come from continuously taking from those that strive to better themselves and giving to those causes which do not contribute to the prosperity of California.

The Constitution - Last I checked it is a living, breathing document controlled by the people, not the other way around.

I keep hearing this BS about the 14 amendment making those born here via an illegal alien mother automatically citizens. BS, that was a bench rulling, but NOT the intent. WE, THE PEOPLE, can change THAT.

Hacks on both sides, but with a focus on California's insane liberals, take this adage.

When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When the law is on your side, argue the law. And when you don’t have either the law or the facts on your side, pound the table!

Pound the table, hwoever, is name calling, slander, shouting falsehoods over and over again until the lazy fall prey to the fanatical rote messaging.

I am near done with this State. Brown's budget is a farce and his "mid-course adjustment" is a vote to increase taxes! < I wil not pay a single additional penny. If it passes, I am out of here.

Sooner the better! California is currently controlled by the votes west of I-5 with all its liberals (they really should be called "controlists"). Please leave Jerry Brown with the old remainder state! Candidly, we need a whole new name because the word California stands for sun tax and welfare. I'd name it Reagan in honor of his 100th birthday!
Allan Davis, Murrieta, Reagan 92562

As a Northern Californian I heartily support the idea - then how much should we charge you for our water! - in fact might I suggest that the south leave the country completely - I am sure mexico will welcome you into their family!!!
I have seen San Bernadino and Colton - I will take the North and the beauty any time - good bye

"Regulations to control greenhouse gasses, and other unnecessary rules, have chased businesses out of California and devastated the economy.

Political infighting has paralyzed California for more than decade, creating a state that is too large to govern."

He got about half of his talking points right: greenhouse gas control has had ~ zero impact anywhere in California. The CARB & EPA regulations on air quality have made it more expensive to do a lot of things, but if we go back to the air quality of the 1960's there will be riots. If you're not old enough to remember- it was terrible.

Radicalization of the Right & Left because of gerrymandered districts is indeed a problem, possibly this will be better with the new district drawing plan- we'll see.

It seems strange that a pro micro-government type would promote a plan to create a state that absolutely will require more duplication of service agencies. It will cost more.
Unlike those home owners who walk a way from their obligations because the home is now "under water" the new state will not be able to walk away from the existing obligations for pensions etc. - That is still going to be part of your obligation

Oh, please do make your own state! We can then stop SUBSIDIZING all your water needs! Please please create your own waterless state and try to expand your cities and grow your crops all by your own selves. It will be the best thing we can do for real California - the north where we have ample resources and care enough about them to protect and use them wisely, rather than pave them over and create gated communities and ghettos. Go go go!

Great. Do it. Take LA county, too. Now put a plug in all the water transfer from the north. Enjoy the desert.

And when the next quake hits, good luck paying for the repairs. And don't bother calling CalFire next time your hills are toast. We're tired of SoCal sucking all the resources from the luscious north.

We've got some nice water up here that we can sell you.

Oh this would be a dream come true. Finally no more having to make excuses for all the small mindedness and conservative constipation we have had to battle with for all these years. The only question is what will you southerners call yourselves?

The residents of Northeast Philadelphia talked about seceding from (the county of) Philadelphia thirty years ago. They wanted to secede from the "welfare" portion of the city. They were going to name the new county Liberty County. Of course it never happened and now the majority of the county/city is a welfare state.

Don't let the door hit you in the hinie on the way out.

WATER ---- it seems all the NorCal libs have to hold hostage SoCal is water. They might want to look up how the Secretary of the interior controls access and allotments.

Best of luck to them! There is no reason for the rational people of these counties to suffer because of the progressive, failed policies of the rest of the state!

Poor Jeff Stone. All his acquisitions of land from insider info have failed to increase his bank account. Someone in my family used to work for him. The first comment on top nailed it perfectly.

Wow what a great Idea! Become a state with no water.Being a rancher in Northern California I think this is a great Idea.We can keep our water up north for agriculture not send it south for green lawns and swimming pools.

I am firmly opposed to any such split. The complications would be mind boggling, and the disruption to all of our lives while records were transfered, addresses adjusted, boundaries redrawn, a Constitution written, and whatever else, make it not worth it.

Furthermore, I don't believe it could ever happen. No state east of the Rockies would ever agree to give the West Coast two more senators.

Like Mr. Stone, I am all worked up over the budget - I live in Menifee - But a much simpler solution would be for Mr. Stone, and other influential people to encourage their Republican friends in the Legislature to pass a budget that would increase revenue, as well as reduce unneeded expenditures!

The real problem is that the extremes of both parties control their members. So we have the radical right and the looney left. The result is a total disaster in CA.

As a life-long resident of Los Angeles I would welcome the division from Nothern Calfornia. Los Angeles used to be a good place to live; it had nice neighborhoods and the downtown district was where peple went to shop. It now (especially downton) looks likea third world country; neighborhoods are blighted and the city looks old and worn out. There are also laws that need to be changed. Central LA is a joke because of the draconian rent control laws. These laws make it impossible for developers and landlords to receive a normal return on thier investments. Whole neighborhoods are now going to seed because landlords will not invest in inner city properties. Los angeles used to be a great city, California used to be a great state but all that has stopped becasue of the messed up laws we now live under. Maybe the state of Southern California would finally be able to prote t its borders and enforce laws against hiring people who have no right to be here.

And I forgot to mention the Constitutional problem: Article IV, Section 3: "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State..."

"No new state shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other State..."
is what it says, and I'll bet that means no new State can be formed from part of California.

Mr. Stone is grandstanding. He needs to get back to work.

Hey, no fair!!! Look at that map. It's the definition of gerrymandering. We'll let ya go, but you're taking Los Angeles with you when you leave. And also your per capita share of the state debt.

I can't speak for the entire country, but there are a number (100's of 1,000's) of us who think the whole state needs to go away. Your state's whole thought process is wrong...YOU PEOPLE don't think right.

On the really off chance that Stone gets somewhere, can Democrats and Independents south of the new border apply for refugee status up north? I mean, who wants to live in a state like texas with terrible slums (eg. El Paso) and infrastructure (eg. Houston), and dusty, mean, suspicious, speed trap western towns that make Barstow look like heaven (sorry Barstow). The only reason texas has nice highways is because the Bushies funneled so much federal funding for interstates to that place. Texas' finances are even more myth-based than California's, which isn't saying much, and the lower unemployment rate is due to efforts to turn texas into SE Asia as far as worker pay and benefits are concerned.

Repuke Gov - It is the State Legislator that makes the budgets and laws.

SoCal vs NorCal - It was Norcal who pushed the illegal alien aopen border policy and who railed against prop 187. This is what has turned LA into a crap hole.

I don't care what they do as long as they crack down on the illegals and zip up that gaping border hole.

California is to big and to complex to be rulled by one government in Sacramento. This makes sense and I believe if it comes down to votes those counties have enough....... The counties in northern CA that border Oregon have also wanted to do the same thing. It may be time for real change..

If this is what it takes to turn your state around, go for it. The next one will be Texas. This is the only state that can truely run itself. It has all the natural resources, including oil and gas, and infrastructure to be truely independent. Texas doesn't need to be another state for Obama to ruin but a separate Republic as it was before.

I say FINE! Join MEXICO!!
At least that way ya won't be trying to steal Northern Califoria's water.

WHY CANT WE START LOOKING INTO HOW EACH OF THE LEGAL VOTERS CAN SOMEHOW TAKE THE FINAL VOTES AWAY FROM OUR REPRESENTATIVES AND JUST LET THEM COMEUP WITH THE BILLS AND LAWS .WITH TECHNOLOGY TODAY I CAN SEE NO REASON SOME FORM OF THIS COULDNT BE IMPLEMENTED FOR AN ULTIMATE DEMOCRACY TIME TO UPGRADE OUR OUTDATED SYSTEM

Whatever you want to say about Supervisor Jeff Stone, he does know how to get a conversation brewing. What a lot of interesting comments. A few notes: (1) Failed Gov. Arnold Schwarzegger was a Republican but he was no conservative, (2) it isn't "Northern California's water," it is Planet Earth's water that must be shared by all Americans and Californians, north and south, (3) notice how the northern Californian suggested that Southern California become a part of Mexico. Sounds a little racist to me, but a racist comment coming from a liberal/progressive from northern California should come as no surprise. Finally, let's give Supervisor Stone a break. His mom was an Academy Award-winning actress and his dad was a popular pediatrician. Oh, wait, I am getting him mixed up with the Donna Reed Show.

Not a bad idea! The major metropolitan areas (Los Angeles and San Francisco) have an extremely high population that is on "the dole"--this includes people for who this safety net was designed, people who choose to not work, and illegal immigrants. The state of CA, the City and County ofLos Angeles have bankrupted themselves by willingly supplying services to this population for decades. Those of us who still have jobs are footing the bill. Being a property owner in Riverside County, if the State of South California is established I'm selling my LA house, retiring from my job in LA and moving full time to the new state. Let the remainder of the present state of CA fend for themselves. I've had it with the mismanagement of my tax dollars!

Won't happen, and if it did, where ya planning on buying your water from, bubba? And where you gonna get the money for it? Every couple decades some clown comes up with this idea in order to get his name in the news.

What happened to Los Angeles county? It's like he's inviting everyone to join him but them, even though they are smack dab in the middle of all these other counties he lists. Or is LA county not buying into this nonsense? That's likely the reason. He's proposing a situation that ends emissions regulations? That's nuts. The only reason California isn't the leader in smog production today is because of those emissions regulations. Other states that don't have near the commuters have as high or higher smog than much of southern California. Do you guys honestly want to go there? It's bad now, but imagine how much worse it would be without being able to take gross polluters off the road? That's nuts. I agree that the bill he's lamenting should probably be amended, but secession? Really???? That's the kind of thinking they do in Texas folks, not California....time to quit bickering and get to work!

Direct democracy such as you propose is always a disaster beyond the level of small town meetings. (Remember ancient Athens?) That's why CA is such a mess. Those propositions that WE voted for lowered taxes and borrowed money (in the form of bonds) we can barely repay. We need less direct democracy, not more. That's why the Founding Fathers went for indirect democracy. Lefties and Public Unionists think that if they just tax the rich and agitate enough a pot of gold will miraculously appear. Righties think that if we cut taxes for the rich and cut services for everyone else, prosperity will magically appear.

Give up the medical marijuans! RINOS are not real Republicans.

For the guy who wondered where I get my info about California and Texas. I read - a lot. And I drive - a lot. I know these states pretty well, up close and personal. My car nearly stalled out in Houston in the rain. California requires drainage ponds. Does Houston prefer drowning? Barstow has much nicer infrastructure and people in it than west Texas, where they look at you funny when you go into a store, where tertiary roads look like heck (kind of like CA's freeways), and where deputies lurk at every county border for out of state plates to ticket. Oh, and those signs at the border, "Proud home of President George W. Bush"? Oh, brother!

Now, I'm wondering why Stone left out Merced County. It's one of the most rabidly right-wing counties in CA. Could it be because it's also one of the poorest?

I'm curious as to why Stone's chief of staff said that Stone's 'disenfranchised with the state's inabilities.' Wouldn't that simply mean that he's calling out California's inabilities for depriving him of either the right to vote or depriving him of power? Interesting choice of words.

I grew up in the little town of Anaheim when you drove through the country side filled with Orange Groves to Santa Anna, Orange, Fullerton, What have you done? The US Gov't ask the Mexicans to come to the states to work because all of our men were in the militiary or working for the war effort, we had no one to pick the oranges , or harvest the other farm produce so now we have 7 plus million illegal's that we wanted so badly during the war,( the white boys that came back from war were nolonger intersted in this kind of work) we have blamed everything possible on the people we had to have during the war, after the war was over and rush of the eastern big city folks flocked to sunny California and now its keep the rich and richer and the poor as poor as you can make them. Left in 1958 I have been back several times in the last fifty years to see the distruction of a once great place. Good luck getting it righted again!

Stone's proposal is the dumbest thing I've heard today. Buyt I realize ...stupidity is incurable.

Guess electing Gov Moonbeam, and having the likes of Pelosi, Waxman, Boxer and Waters representing the state is just too much. Sadly, sure that the citizens are facing another tax and spender waiting in the wings (Lt Gov).

Who would have ever thought this would be seriously considered -- but here we are!

Dems want to tax and spend. Republicans want to cut taxes, borrow, and spend. God help us all!

I saw the map. NOR CAL still has the water. Eat sand Stone.

I live in Northern California and say good luck.... You will be paying bucko bucks for water, oh lets not forget food.... Gosh Dairy, poultry, produce oh lets not forget wine... Go ahead break off from Northern Cal we have wanted that for a very long time....

Hey, Moxo. Republicans only want to take away benefits for people who are not like them. Democrats only want to tax people who are not like them.

And the demublicans all said, 'Praise God for taxes!'

California's education system is a mess because of the myth that you can get equal outcomes from equal resources and effort. Kids are not widgets.

Why are we funding "illegal", (and please keep in mind the word "illegal" and what it means) immigrant's educations? Or any other "illegal" immigrants problems? Like welfare, medical, etc. If they are "illegal", then they have broken the law, haven't they? How come these people can even get assistance if they have broken the law?!? They are a huge portion of our debt because they get free medical assistance, food, etc. We the taxpayers pay for the births of their children, and their children's ongoing medical care and the parents medical care because they don't pay for insurance, they just get everything for free! And then, on top of that, we have the damn idiots out there who protest everything everytime someone wants to start or continue a business that doesn't please them. We have so much oil right here and oil companies would love to pay us mucho bucks to get at it. Companies want to start up windturbines to create clean electricity, but some yoyos out there are afraid it might kill a bird or two. Let's see, birds, humans, yeah, screw the humans. Oh, and then we have some lizard that might become extinct if we don't farm properly. Huh, does it occur to these people that different species have become extinct for thousands of years, even before we humans were here and interfered?!! Yeah, keep stopping everything and California will stop too!!! We need businesses in this state and we need to stop sending them elsewhere.

Texas is not in good financial shape. It has a heavy debt load (It's a Republican thing.) Its test scores look better than California's because its education standards are lower - also a Republican thing.

So where is my comment Patch as it was well within the so called guide lines?????????

California's debt is primarily due to underfunded public pensions and bond debt service. Californians voted for the bonds, so who's fault is that? If you point a finger, note that three are pointed back at you. Illegals do get free public education. I agree with keeping them in K-12 schools. You REALLY don't want those kids running loose all day, do you? They get free emergency room care, too. They do NOT get welfare. They pay taxes, including Social Security, SDI, etc. that they'll never collect because their SS numbers are fake. So if they're all sent back to Mexico (pipe dream) Social Security will be even more insolvent.

I am 50 and spent 27 years of my earlier life living in California. after leaving some years ago I finally found out there can be life after California and there are many other great states one can live in that respect ones liberties and our constitution? Ca is a nice state, but the last 40 plus years has been ruined by the big city liberals, mostly in upstate Bay area and the greater LA area? when I was a kid one could own a gun and actually go target shooting, ammo was not made illegal yet and life in general was far better than kids have it today. in their quest to make everything in life equal the libs only made everything socialistic for everyone. all my life I heard of this idea of splitting the state down the middle, but it wasn't taken seriously, now with all that has been done to ruin Ca, possibly it no longer seems so far fetched as before? this guy may actually have a point...undergo surgery to save half the patient, or stand by and watch the whole body die off a slow, painful death?

It theory a great idea much like what some of the automakers did. Divide in two - good assets go with the new company. Debt stays with the old. The real problem is that it would have to be voted into the union as the 51st state. As an independent "territory" it probaly wouldn't get any Federal aid. There is a whole bunch of other legal and constitutional issues that would have to be resolved.

Sorry, but this man has represented my community for years and everything he had ever said or tried to implement in Murrieta I have voter against, including him. I won't touch upon everything he has stated in his "talking points", but I can tell you it's BECAUSE of wrong way politicians such as Jeff Stone, that public education in the state of California is ranked 48th. Education KEEPS getting cut, K-12 and our colleges, to the point that class sizes have increased from 20:1 to 32:1+, classes are cut at the college level, and teachers are continually laid off! Larger class sizes, lack of funding in the classroom, and lack of a proper education is NOT what this country needs, especially as our children are competing against a global market. Stone and his collegues are politicians who like to place the blame for their incompetancies on others, personally as well as politically. If these counties decide to push this forward, and should it happen, shame on you! You will have given in to the typically bullying that many of our politicians do today..... "My way or the highway" mentality!

Actually this has been done before. Do some research about how there came to be West Virginia.

West Virginia broke away AFTER Virginia had voted to leave the union, so technically Virginia was no longer a state of the United States that could be divided. Still, the creation and admission of West Virginia was a somewhat irregular rush job in the heat of war fever.

Yes Jeff, hold your breath.

People keep blaming the governors, legislators, or the political party that's not theirs. We won't make this state better until we take ownership of the blame. It's OUR fault.

As a resident of Mariposa county, I would vote for this in a heartbeat. If we could rid ourselves of the liberals of Sacramento, San Francisco, all the way down to LA, we'd be much better off. Yosemite is in Mariposa, remember. And I would imagine Tuolumne would join us in a heartbeat. And Hetch Hetchy is in Tuolumne. How does that grab you people from San Francisco that get much of your water and electric from that reservoir? This could work....

"He is dead serious." About what, ending his political career as a segment on The Daily Show? What a schmo!

That would be awesome. Then here in Northern california we can stop paying taxes to support all the welfare and illegals in Southern California and we can charge Southern California a ton of money for water. Crossing my fingers. LOL

Any clowns like Stone smart enough to campaign for leaders that understand the need for compromise and against the Republithug approach of NO...NO...NO, now I'm going home. Also, if this happens, go ahead and collect your taxes BUT the cost of our water in the North just went up.

its so funny how these liberals are so transparent in how terrrified of any change of the welfare enabled system they are part of...All they can say is "that guys a nut" but they wont actually take issue with the proposal at hand...lol..Hey liberals, I think 30 years of following the liberal status quo which has brought our state to fiscal ruin deserves a listen to another idea....you clowns

If Arnie is a Republican my a$$ is the Golden Gate Bridge. You don't know a republican from a RINO.

Yeah. Let's have SoCal secede from CA...form it's own El Norte country, and then apply for federal funds to continue to pander to the great masses of AFDC, SNAP, and other uses. Let's watch the few people left in CA who are still trying to hold on to their drastically devalued houses and their jobs finally get fed up and bail out of this god forsaken hell-hole.

Great idea we will be able to have them crawl under northern california border to get a can of California water

What does Nancy Pelosi think about all this?

the proposed state would be fourth in population of fifty one and fourteenth in size. try to fit fifty one stars on the flag.

ALL OF YOU HAVE MISSED WHAT THE REAL .PROBLEM IS. ASK YOUR SELVES IF THIS IS SUCH A FREE THINKING COUNTRY, WHY DO WE LET ONLY TWO POLITICAL PARTIES CONTROL THE WHOLE "GAME". THATS ALL IT IS TO THEM. AND WE ARE ALL THE PING PONG BALL ON THE TABLE. THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS. DO SOME RESEARCH AND SEE ALL THE BENEFITS THEY RECIEVE FOR JUST BEING ELECTED ONE TIME.

As a former California resident who bailed out 30 years ago, I can both sympathize and empathize with this fledgling secession movement. One big complication, though. In Riverside County, a huge portion of the land area is tied up in Federal lands. Wonder how it would all pan out in D.C. Of course, I wouldn't blame them if they seceded from the misgoverned, mismanaged and declining USA, and took back control of their lands....

First of all California is not a " State " its a " Republic " like Texas. As such it can withdraw from the United States or reform itself by majority vote of the population.

Look at your history part of Maine has tried to leave and petition to become part of Canada. (IE: Aroostook County War) So a restructuring of California is not something unheard of. Several states in New England have looked at joining financially and leaving as well in the 80's and 90's dropping government funding to become an independant state.

John Brooks
9:41 on Friday July 1, 2011
Anything would be a relief from living in a welfare state that builds massive 5 star medical clinics for the uninsured and illegal immigrants with the tax dollars of hard working Californians. I for one and I now know the many are just plain feed up with it. I have to hand to someone willing to think out side this welfare box our current politicians have created!

If that's what the map of the new state would like, then shouldn't the new state be called Southeast California?

Did anyone notice the reason? "because it diverts vehicle license fee revenue to fund public safety." the government has been stealing from all of us in the guise of Vehicle License fees for years... Now that the pot is overflowing with gold they want to channel the windfall into other government agendas. Think about it, they actually have the nerve to charge us if we elect not to register our vehicle and simply store it... Fee's range well over $900.00 for not registering your 1970s vehicle for two years... Keep in mind, this is for simply a piece of paper registering or not registering your vehicle. And now an elected official is hoppin mad, wants to start a new state and keep all that money they are stealing from us for his state... Go Figure! Wonder what would happen if they just charged us a simple fee for registering our vehicle, and not that ridiculous highway robbery… Ah Gee, he just lost his reason to start a new state!

One of the problems is us - the voters. You can't keep voting for props that cost more money and not fund them. Where do they think the money comes from? A lot of people get a gov't check & think it (gov't) has endless money. Well, the money comes from me & I don't have any more to spare. Then we have leg.'s that are more worried about how a hotel bedsheet should be one the bed - fitted or flat. Come give me a break. Do they not remember - WE'RE BROKE and have more important matters to work on. The problem is us stupid Californians keep voting the assholes back in. We are seriously job hunting in other states. My taxes are taking the food right out of my children's mouths and no we're not rich. My husband makes $35k and yes we're thankful he has a job. So many don't. We have a house (in our means), drive a 10yr car, and thankfully no credit card debts. We saw this coming and started to save & get out of debt. Now we have gone thru savings & living on his paycheck. I bet if they got a group of us housewives up there to go thru the budget we could get it balance & have schools, public safety, and water still taken care of and start of rainy day fund too.

Leave San Diego County OUT of your proposal sir! Take ALL of Eastern California if you'd like, but LEAVE the entire Coastal areas alone! You can have Riverside, Imperial, Kern, Kings, Fresno, Merced, Stanislaus, San Joaquin, Amador, El Dorado, Placer, Sutter, Colusa, Glenn, Tehama, Trinity, Del Norte and EVERYTHING EAST!

Trust me when I say this, you don't like us, and WE don't like you! So if you're going to do it, do it right!

Last I checked, Texas is the only state that can legally suceed from anything.

Not one in a hundred of you people can tell your butt from your beehive. You are the stupidest pile of humanity I have ever seen. That they allow cretins like you to vote is simply appalling.
This country is doomed.

Most of you are missing something. Los Angeles County is NOT INCLUDED in the list of counties to secede. LA stays with the north. I have always thought that an appropriate separation would be the San Gabriel Mountains, making Southern California only about 160 miles long.

What part of the human logic and faulty reasoning is triggered when passionate ideas are considered news.
Gov. Brown was clear when he advised that failing to extend temporary tax legislation, would result in drastic cuts, to balance the budget. As I recall, he wanted to let us vote. Something our representatives prevented. Well let me be the first to thank them for saving me from me!

What part of the human logic and faulty reasoning is triggered when passionate ideas are considered news.
Gov. Brown was clear when he advised that failing to extend temporary tax legislation, would result in drastic cuts, to balance the budget. As I recall, he wanted to let us vote. Something our representatives prevented. Well let me be the first to thank them for saving me from me!

Since there appear to be a reasonable number of directly elected representatives starting to understand what a majority of our 32M concerned California citizens have been trying to voice in reference to Mr. Stone’s key discussion points, wouldn’t it make much more sense to establish a coalition to eliminate those that are ruining our Great State of California.
We’ve elected incompetent governors because we were limited to picking the better of evils. We have allowed the appointments of out of touch directors to positions of czars that have, and are currently using those positions that are resulting in the detriment of the geographical, economical and commercial advantage we have as a revenue-generating region without sucking the life out of our residents.
We as a people can control these things by taking actions against those supposed public servants that are bent on destroying our Great State for personal gain, power and self benefit or whatever indecent objective but certainly not to better California. We at least have the power as a united people. If those in power now can make insane mandates on our communities, and us, then we can certainly make those same propositions to revive reasonability, stability and growth of a better State.

Isn’t that how we became what we are now losing?

To the Koch Brothers presents the GOP Tea Bag crowd; careful what you ask for, you may get it.

"There is no reason for the rational people of these counties to suffer because of the progressive, failed policies of the rest of the state!"Really? Let's look at the BIGGEST part of the california budget: Prisons and guards get more money than anything else. We have the most draconian three strikes law in the country and the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world. What's progressive about that? It was a feel good proposition initiative back by the conservatives that caused that.

Ditto for term limits that have made sure our state is run by bureaucrats and lobbyists because our elected representatives have to leave by the time they learn what is really happening.

Ditto Prop 13 (the sacred cow and 3rd rail of state politics); it was promoted by a group of greedy and selfish apartment owners. I talked with Howard Jarvis less than two weeks before Prop 13 passed and told him it was a bad law. His response? "I know that, and you know that, but by the time everyone else figures it out, I'll be dead." (Yes, that is a quote.)

It's not the progressive policies that have failed. The problem is the abuse of the initiative system by those with far more money than morals.

Hmmm. Nevada could use a warm-water port. :-)

"Simple Minded" people who lack knowledge always think there are Simple solutions. The NEVER get it and they Never understand all of the Complexities involved in anything. Our entire nation (not just Southern CA or TX) is taking on an mental attitude more akin to the cartoon characters "The Simpsons" than THINKING human beings who can relate to the Consequences of their actions and see beyond step one.
They are more like children who cannot play together and get mad instead and say I am going home and I am taking my bat and ball with me.

Those who live here understand we have two very different states culturally and politically. It is severely disfunctional and the differences cripple any chance for resolving the issues necessary to put the state back on a reasonable footing. The territory is the 3rd largest in the country and the largest population in the country. It is unwieldly and dividing in two makes a great deal of sense to restoring some functionally and reconciling the very different politics between north and south. Its past time to give this idea serious consideration.

I have believed for the last 35 + years that Cal should be two states but I would not call it so cal. The politics of Cal are diverse to say the least I do not regret leaveing should of moved sooner.

Just an outside observation (Eastcoaster, here): Cali. seems to be suffering a bad case of what the rest of our country has, "schism-itis" which is the fake inflammation and polarization (left vs. right, dem vs repub, lib.vs con.) while they all laugh at us behind closed doors in DC....it seems no matter what party is in power (for decades now) I pay more in taxes, get less in services and have been fear-mongered into giving away one of our most basic freedoms: privacy (Patriot Act anyone?)... I think it's time we admit the two party system has failed...
"the politics of failure has failed" - the simpsons

I have read all of the comments posted so far. Very Interesting!
I wonder how this many persons from all over the state and other states found this place to make comments.

Thanks to all for intelligent comments. We did learn sumthin' in CA schools. The first items to cut from the budget are those "special interest" projects. Our system causes all politicians (federal & state) to be obliged to special interests to finance their election campaigns. Then take a look at "entitlements". Politicians disappoint after taking office. I still own a small home in Burbank, CA, but have retired to beautiful South Carolina (Part of the "Greater Charlotte, NC" area) since 2005.

I wish to add: Millions of constituents DO live within their personal budgets. State and Federal budgets CAN be balanced without cutting schools and needed services.

OOHHHHHHHHH, how radical. Another nobody politician trying to make a name for himself.

Right on--Now we can implement marriage equality and stop being classified by ignorant people as second class citizens. IN FACT: you should eliminate government altogether and just implement an evangelical theocracy.

Interesting to see the conservatives commenting on the merits of the plan, while the liberals/progressives are reserving their comments on personal attacks. I don't know of this could happen, but I believe it sure could work. The new state would certainly be a conservative one and using Texas as a role model is a good idea. We in Southern California don't claim to be blessed with amazing physical beauty in our landscape, but we are the economic force that drives California. Northern California wants to cut off our water. Most of Northern California water goes to Los Angeles County, which will not be a part of this proposed new state. Most of the new state would continue to get its water from the Colorado River and infact, we could consider keeping more of that water and cutting it off from Los Angeles County which takes too much of it. In the end, California is run by liberals/progressives and they are running our state into the ground. This new state as proposed by Supervisor Jeff Stone would be run by conservatives, and like Texas, could be a national leader in economic strength and leadership. Let's fully explore this plan, this idea.

Charles, what a great comment.
A few points those water mongers in the North should be reminded of:
(1) Charge too much for water, and they will get it elsewhere. So by all means cut your nose off to spite your face.
(2) So.Cal can do without the Silicon Valley. Can No.Cal do without all the revenue of So.Cal?

In fact if So. Cal became its own state, I would consider moving back.

Can't we just use Riverside and San Berdoo counties for nuclear waste storage?
The japanese would certainly welcome the idea - we probably could get their radioactive rubble for free and then use it to fill in canyons and gulches. Win-win all around.

OMG, it must be the heat! Chill, people.

Republicans are at at again. They are losing power because of their failed economic polciies, and now they want to pretend like they are being held hostage by the Democrats. If you want to live in a red state, then MOVE to one. There are dozens of them. But no, don't get to carve up our state. Not going to happen so forget it.

Regardless to the cherry picking of counties that Supervisor Jeff Stone wants to seceded from the state of California, it opens up new problems for the proposed Southern California state, such as water rights and revenue. Being from Northern California my attitude is fine, go without water.
It also leaves counties such as San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Los Angeles as part of Northern California. I suppose Mr. Stone doesn't consider as part of Southern California.
Finally getting Federal approval for the new state would be next to impossible with the dysfunctional government we have. The idea is a waste of everyones time that will die exactly as it is, a dumb idea.

I really love how everyone is forgetting that we're all in this together. North and South. Mexican and American. Black, white, whatever. Politicians of today are far too beholdent to big money and corporations. No matter. There will soon come a day when we will all realize this and therefore must stand together or perish. Until then, we can keep pointing fingers at one another and ducking our heads in the sand. This is America ya know. As a 12th generation American, I hope we the people can stand together to make this country truly what it set out to be: home of the free, land of the brave. Happy 4th of July everyone!!

I cannot agree more that we Americans are in this together, no matter our skin tone or family heritage. However, there are a number of differences between the political philosophies as pushed by conservatives versus those pushed by liberals/progressives. We should all agree we need to stand together as Americans, but we can stand together as Americans, but in different states where different philosophies are applied. The result of this plan as proposed by Supervisor Stone would result in a more liberal California in the north (Northern California) and a more conservative California in the south (Southern California). I think this plan would serve the wants and needs of all current Californians the most. Nobody would perish and nobody would be any less American. Just that Northern California would be more like New York or Illinois and Southern California would be more like Texas. By the way, Happy Fourth of July to everyone.

I want to thank CA for innovations which have spread to the rest of the country, like unleaded gas and emissions controls. I live in the Midwest and I'm old enough to remember that these things (and many environmental and safety precautions) started in CA. I sometimes feel like the office worker who, without having to form a union or strike, receives her 40 hour work week and safety benefits because of someone else's efforts. Thanks, CA! Don't split up.

Stone is not imploding California, that is occurring with or without him. He is simply looking to cut a swatch out of this liberal controlled mess to form a more rational state. All the NorCal types keep saying is FINE no water for you, not understanidng they do not control the water rights. They also make snide illegal alien remakrs leavin out that it was liberals who opened the border, to end the SoCal conservative stronghold. Via Gerrymandering the GOP's onoly voice is in areas they cannot divide and when the race for Gov occurs. Eventhen a GOP Gov can do little because the DNC controls the Legislator.

I have lived here long enough. An Avocado grove in Fabllbook, homes in Del Mar and San Clemente all have one thing in common, for sale signs. I am done with this place.

The succession of certain southern California counties (only the wealthier ones) from northern California is an absurd proposal. It is a proposal that has to do with money only. Did you notice that Los Angeles will be a part of northern California in this proposal? I am a fifth generation Californian. I have spent equal parts of my life in both the north and south. I live in the north now and love it! My grown children live in the south and love it! The people supporting this proposal want to get rid of the areas in southern California that are least desirable to them financially. They want to dump the financially-undesirable places on northern California. FORGET IT! All of California is wonderful. We in the north don't like your scummy areas either, as you don't like ours. But you are asking the Notherners take your scummy areas. California is a wonderful state despite the current financial crisis. Show that you are worthy of this great state, and don't support this ridiculous proposal.

Secessionists duplicating services and not one word of refusing State funding. What is of interest is the gerrymandering of this proposed South California by the counties, would seem it is more the white flight tea bag crew. invited.

These people should just move to Arizona.   In that state, you can choke on all the corporate sponsored tea and extremism that you can drink.   Leave California alone!  

Many people here have touched on an important issue - water. Southern California can not support a fraction of its current population out of its own resources. As a 4th generation native I find the idea of separation humorous, and encourage it so Northern California can clean up San Francisco Bay and not have to deal with the problems that Southern California brings to an otherwise lovely place to live

The best idea I think would be for Republicans to simply move out of the state en mass. It's a win-win. Democrats win, because we're sick of Republican state politicians blocking every move to balance the budget, and Republicans win because you would go to a state that does everything 'right' - like Texas (even though with a GOP supermajority are dealing with their own 25 BILLION dollar budget shortfall)

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/texas-legislature/headlines/20101023-Legislature-likely-to-cut-deep-to-571.ece

Sorry, liberals/progressives. We're not leaving. We live here, too, and we have our rights to try to implement change where we think it is needed. What is the rest of the liberal/progressive plan? Round up conservatives and lock them up in concentration camps? Didn't the Democrats do that to Japanese-Americans during World War II? It took a Republican President, Ronald Reagan, to finally sign a letter of apology to those Japanese-Americans the Democrats locked up during World War II. We need to all work together to tackle California's severe challenges. Our state isn't working and it hurts this native son and the son of a native son (both my parents were born here in this state) to see my state run into the ground by the gang in Sacramento.

@Charles G. Ferrell

Yes the democrats and the republicans both supported and created the authorization of putting Japanese Americans in temporary internment camps. But you Reagan bots are hilarious. How about you look up Rex 84 where Reagan created an executive order to suspend the constitution and also place people who he felt was a threat or didn't like in military prison and labor camps.

Or how about George W. Bush's executive order that placed people in labor camps. Look it up, it actually happened.

So please don't point to the democrats that they were the ones responsible for the internment camps because the republicans favored it and voted for it.

Conservatives and republicans are just as responsible for the problems in California so I don't want to hear it. California has many great things about it. It still has the largest economy it now has more Fortune 500 companies then even Texas now according to the 2011 Fortune 500 figures. It has a lower poverty rate then many states in the South including Texas. It leads in many industries and as soon as this global economy recovers California will be strong again.

When conservatives become in charge of California, then we can hold them more responsible than they are now. However, I do blame conservatives for many of our state's and nation's ills. I blame the conservatives who have sat on their hands on election day, rejecting an otherwise superior candidate because of some small difference of opinion. If conservatives would vote together, as they did in the 2010 elections, mostly, we could see some real results. The new conservative House of Representatives have stopped the bleeding in Washington D.C., but for there to be real healing, conservatives have to again assert their strength in voting in the 2012 election and take over control of the U.S. Senate and the White House.

NorCal elitistism is reflected in their opinions on Riverside and San Bernardino Counties. They make light of the areas because it is not their ideal. Cowboys, farmers, rail workers and while they want solar energy, and Riverside County is deemed the top source in the State, they condemn it in their next breath.

The knock the county, but fail to mention the research and haven the Coachella Valley was for those with AIDS (because of the air and conditions that impacted the lungs of those with the virus).

They fail to mention the research done at Loma Linda or the skiing or the waters of Lake Havasu or the top ranked communites of Temecula/Murrieta.

A brief list.

Riverside and San Bernardino

Coachella Valley - Palm Springs, LaQuinta, Rancho Mirage, etc.
Lake Havasu and the River.
Big Bear
Lake Arrowhead
Mtn High
Temecula Valley
ESRI
Loma Linda University Med Ctr.
Abbot Vascular
Eisenhower Medical Center (Betty Ford and DOC)
Kaiser
Morongo
Pechanga
Fed Ex
UPS
Ontario International

The sentiment on this board is the exact reason Stone should pursue the breakaway. The mindet and desires of the people are vastly different. Each should be allowed to express themselves and neither should oppress the other.

@Steven Hernandez

You are ridiculous, of course the plan went in place. And it isn't just the left who has talked about this, it has been libertarians like Ron Paul and anti-war Paleoconservatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

"Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a "scenario and drill", developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be "national security threats", in the event that the President declares a "State of Domestic National Emergency"

"Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen regularly.[13] For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of over 100,000 persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list.[14]

The basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency planning readiness exercises—and the potential threat they pose to civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation—are taken seriously by scholars and civil libertarians.[15]"

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Rex_84

"Rex 84 , short for Readiness Exercise 1984 , is a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of civil unrest or national emergency."

Here's a video talked about it in court

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug0IL7k3elQ

@Steven Hernandez

And for George W. Bush and his labor camp program It's all in this executive document

www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

You can't deny these things. You can choose to be a sheep but I was responding to someone who wanted to randomly point to FDR and his Japanese internment program. But at least people were treated better then under Rex 84 and Bush's labor camp program.

And these events of concentration camps and labor camps go way back. The first one I will talk about is the indigenous people

"The first large-scale confinement of a specific ethnic group in detention centers began in the summer of 1838, when President Martin Van Buren ordered the U.S. Army to enforce the Treaty of New Echota (a Native American removal treaty) by rounding up the Cherokee into prison camps before relocating them."

The other one is the Philippine-American War where General J. Franklin Bell began a concentration camp policy in Batangas.

"Filipino villagers were forced into concentration camps called reconcentrados which were surrounded by free-fire zones, or in other words “dead zones.” Furthermore, these camps were overcrowded and filled with disease, causing the death rate to be extremely high. Conditions in these “reconcentrados” were inhumane."

And then aside from that you have American slavery. It's kind of funny how all the people who supported these concentration camps were republican conservative neo-cons.

@Steven Hernandez

California struggling right now currently but that doesn't mean its not economically strong. It has the largest market out of any state, it has the most GDP out of any state and has some of the highest GDP per capita.

It leads in many industries out beating many states including the state of Texas.

Republicans are responsible for many problems, California had a republican president previously and has had republicans filibustering everything. California has prop 13 created by conservatives that did long term damage to the state.

I'm not saying the left are innocent both sides are guilty but the states problems are not because of liberal policies.

Julian, the term neo-con is a derogatory anti-semetic term. It was coined to to describe the old 60's leftist radicals who became conservatives in the 1990's. Neo means "new," and most of these new conservatives happened to be jewish.

@Jullian, wow you sound like you rationalizing the fact the 30 years of a Demcrat have driven this state into the ground..All of the statement you made are false. TEXAS has had a net gain of businesses moving into the state and California has lost tens of thousands of jobs with a net LOSS of businesses. Yes we were are still an economic power but this is due to the silicon valley and our huge agriculture industry..But as for our other businesses, California is 49th in the most unfriendly climate for business startup...So enough with you rationalizations and start admitting the many problems Demcratic policies have brought upon our once great state. How about some solutions? You cant be THAT dillusional

@Steven Hernandez

It is not a derogatory term at all. When has George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan ever been Jewish?

I never supported FDR for that and that is my biggest frustration and turn off by him. However I was pointing to people who have actually done a lot worse. The Japanese were given food shelter, education, healthcare, play time activities, everything they could get. It was just a giant commune not really a labor camp. It was until the war ended as well not full time.

I was pointed to things that are a lot worse and terrible, like Rex 84 which is terrible Bush building labor camps on military grounds to suppress people without due process and making them be forced to labor which is what that executive order technically is which I have posted. I pointed to the Concentration camps for the Native Americans and the concentration camps during the war in the Philippines as well as slavery which were technically concentration camps, slaves were killed and many were forced into labor with out pay.

These are all worse and these were established by many who were reactionary, conservative and were nothing but neo-cons. The McCarthy era which had similar ideas and activities, Rex 84, the removal of the Native Americans, slavery all advocated by far right reactionary people.

@Alex Daniels

I am not right and Texas is not doing good economically. Texas has a budget deficit and debt the size of California now. Texas has always had a much larger poverty rate then California and more inequality. It was able not have an extremely high unemployment rate (yet it is still high with it peaking at around 9% not its around 8.1 or 8.2% which isn't low)

But it was able to have it lower then it could of been because we are in two wars or more and they are all oil countries Texas is able to profit because its an oil state and its a military state and makes weapons for the military. That is why

Where as the housing market collapsed and California has the largest housing market hence why its struggling and the automobile industry collapsed which is why Michigan is struggling. Two of those industries make up a huge portion of that state economy and they were suffering while Oil and war profiteering was booming hence why Texas is not over 10% unemployment.

However it is still ranked 2nd in GDP to California and has a much lower income per-capita compared to California where people have more money in their pockets. Texas has a higher poverty rate, a worse healthcare system, more pollution, more inequality, and a higher college and high school drop out rate.

@Alex Daniels

Texas now has a huge budget deficit and budget debt the size of California's problem and it continues to have a higher poverty, worse healthcare, inequality, a higher drop out rate for college and high school, and more pollution and if you look at 2011. California now beats Texas in the number of Fortune 500 companies in a state. California is ranked second and Texas is now ranked 3rd with another Liberal state New York ranked at number 1 as having the most Fortune 500 companies.

Democrats haven't controlled California in the last 30 years and it has been off and on with Republican control and democrat control but both have made poor decisions and one of the big reasons for California's problems are because of republican policies like Prop 13 and the policy to have a 2/3 majority both create and started by conservatives and republicans.

The democrats are not the cause of the state problems.

Quit blaming Prop 13! Big spenders at the city and county level were raising taxes every year to buy whatever they wanted to do. I could afford my house when I bought at $25,000 years ago. That was my house, based on my salary. If taxes had keep going up they would have soon been more than my house payments. Thank God for Prop 13!

The STATE was supposed to come up with ways for the state to take in more money without raising taxes very much. They were supposed to INCREASE employment in business, industry, mining, forestry, and farming. They did not do this very well. They drove out thousands of small companies. FOR EXAMPLE: I worked for a large company (about 60,000 well paid workers in CA.) It built a lovely new corporate headquarters building in California. The state and County kept putting more weird restrictions on it (Like companies in cities with over 100,000 would have to charge employees for parking) so it moved its HQ to a far away state.
There are about 10,000 employees left there now. Anyway it was the states job to raise some more money and feed it back to cities to make up for PROP 13, and NOT by rasing state tax RATES. They were to increase business and industry income, and keep the tax rates on them not too high. Instead they passed laws that drove out auto assembly plants, paint manufactures, aircraft companies, motion picture industry, destroyed the timber industry to benifit a few owls. Even now the Riverside County Supervisors tried to impose a 2% gross sales tax on the fledging solar power generating plants just starting to be constructed. Other geographic regions give new industries a tax break to come there: but here? Tax them more with a new tax.

I do not know why you are blaming republicans for Prop 13. It helped the lower income and medium income workers keep their homes in decent neighborhoods that would have soon lost them to high taxes without Prob 13, and then had to rent a getto house for as much as their own home payments was costing before the property tax raised and property bubble increased madly. Prop 13 helped all homeowners across the board, rich and poor.

If anyone thinks they could get a big majority to make a new state WITHOUT a guantee of keeping the equal of Prop 13 they are wrong, They do not have the change of a snoball in hades to win an election to defeat Prop 13.

We seem to have gotten off the track a bit. The issue at hand is Supervisor Stone's plan to break off certain counties in California, including Riverside and San Bernardino counties, and form our own new state. This new, much more conservative state, which would not include the liberal/progressive counties that include the cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento and San Jose, would look and operate more like Arizona and Texas, while the remaining old California would operate much more like New York and Illinois. This plan would reduce much of the liberal vs. conservative rantings as expressed by many who have commented on this plan on the Patch and on the CBS site which also broke the story, but certainly not eliminate the conservative vs. liberal/progressive debate over which idiology best serves our nation. Those of us who live in the more conservative counties of California would thus have more say in how our state, our new state, is run, while the liberals/progressives that rule in Los Angeles and San Francisco would have an even greater majority on the state that is left for them. Let's debate the merits or lack of merits of the plan (including whether or not it is even possible) and let the pieces fall where they may.

A leader solve problems does not generate new one .
Jeff Stone for like of better words is an IDIOT. YES AN IDIOT.
California is a State , the South without the North cannot leave , does anyone noticed He conveniently omit Los Angeles and Long Beach and the entire coast line from his measure biut orange County land of the silicone implant and bankruptcy .
Put your money where your mouth is put it on the ballot for the next election.

The coachella Valley cities should secede from Riverside County and form their own county and elect local supervisors who will spend their time on the issues at hand. The Riverside Board of Supervisors is too disconnected to properly lead.

The Liberal entitlemen­t mentality is unsustaina­ble. LA and SF is weighing down the entire state with its ridiculous entitlemen­ts and bad money management and needs to be cut loose and left to collapse if necessary if they are unwilling to be responsibl­e. These austerity measures are the only thing possible to save California...Life 101: You can't have something you haven't paid for. I am personally joining the succession camp today. If it is succesful, i will sell my 4 properties in LA and make a new home in beautiful OC or San Diego and leave those with their hands out seeking indefinite EBT, WIC, and all other forms of Welfare behind.... Finally a choice for us in the private sector where our tax dollars actually goes towards something important, we, the tax payers who actually paid into it. To all those who thought they have no choice, we now dont have to leave this sinking ship known as California.

Who are the idiots? Isn't it interesting how, as again proven with some of the most recent posts on this site, how conservatives debate over the issues, engage in discussions of the issues, even with those with whom they may disagree, while it seems so many liberals/progressives can only respond to those who disagree with them by name calling, such as using the term "idiot." Isn't that a term once used to described someone with a mental illness? Someone who may be different than you, believe in a different political path than you or may be of a different skin color or family heritage, still deserves the respect one human being ought to give to another. Disagree with me, tell me where I have the facts mixed up or agree with me when you do so. But don't stoop to terms like "idiot," "tea bagger" or other low class, foolish comments.

It seems, based on many of the arguments against Supervisor Stone's plan for a new, conservative South California, those who use name calling as their only argument ought to follow the advice: "Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool then to open one's mouth (or send out a foolish internet posting filled with personal attacks) and remove all doubt. In other words, lead with your ideas for positive change, follow those who may have come up with better ideas first, or get out of the way while those who at least conduct themselves in a manner better than you discuss, debate the issues, then provide the leadership we need for the future. Those who call others "idiot" ought to look in the mirror. The idiot may be looking back.

@Paul

Prop 13 caused the problems it was a failure.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1904938,00.html

"What has brought California to such a perilous state? How did its government become so wildly dysfunctional? One obvious cause is the deep recession, which has caused tax revenues to plunge for all states. But California's woes have a set of deeper reasons: direct democracy run amok, timid governors, partisan gridlock and a flawed constitution have all contributed to budget chaos and people in pain. And at the root of California's misery lies Proposition 13, the antitax measure that ignited the Reagan Revolution and the conservative era. In Washington, the Reagan-Bush era is over. But in California, the conservative legacy lives on."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/opinion/25krugman.html

"The seeds of California’s current crisis were planted more than 30 years ago, when voters overwhelmingly passed Proposition 13, a ballot measure that placed the state’s budget in a straitjacket. Property tax rates were capped, and homeowners were shielded from increases in their tax assessments even as the value of their homes rose.

The result was a tax system that is both inequitable and unstable. It’s inequitable because older homeowners often pay far less property tax than their younger neighbors."

@Paul

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/who-ruined-california_b_221339.html

"The consequences of proposition 13 percolated throughout the state's economic and social systems. The California education system deteriorated to the point where it is now ranked 47th in the US. Pundits have characterized the consequences of proposition 13 as the "Mississippification" of California. For the past 30 years, governors and legislators have tried to keep California's financial house together by a series of tricks, most often borrowing in anticipation of future revenues. That worked as long as the California economy was strong, but the recession toppled the Golden State's house of cards."

"Californians have to open our wallets and pay for schools, parks, roads, public safety, and all the other perks we've long associated with living in the Golden State. Our choice is to either to act like adults or resign ourselves to living in a third-world country."

And its not just prop 13 its our crappy legislature and the 2/3 vote process that has caused so much filibustering and problems and delaying things to get passed or having some things not even get passed that could of helped California. The 2/3 also started by Republicans and conservatives. Facts are facts

@Alex Daniels

What are you talking about L.A. is one of the largest cities in the country and in the world. It makes up almost half of the states economy. It is huge.

Los Angeles is a world center of business, international trade, entertainment, culture, media, fashion, science, technology, and education.

Los Angeles is also the largest manufacturing center in the western United States.

San Francisco is the city is also a principal banking and finance center, and the home to more than 30 international financial institutions, helping to make San Francisco rank eighteenth in the world's top producing cities, ninth in the United States, and thirteenth place in the top twenty global financial centers.

San Francisco has a huge economy that produces a lot of wealth and goods and contributes a lot for California's economy. California will be worse off without San Francisco and L.A.

L.A. and San Francisco are not weighing the state down and bringing it down it is keeping California up and alive. LA and San Francisco don't have huge entitlements and don't have poor management policy, that is not true. You are buying into the lies and conservative talking points.

@Alex Daniels

You are really stupid and ignorant. You truly can't see much of an offensive douche bag that you are. Stop calling yourself a tax payer like anyone who works in the public sector isn't a tax payer.

My father and many of my family members are public workers, they are tax payers, they work for their money, it is their labor that gives them their money, so it is THEIR money. Public workers including my father pays into their stuff. So stop saying anyone who isn't a private sector worker is a leech. Our money originates from the same place which is the banks, it is not your money that you created it comes from the banks.

Just like public sector workers money comes from the banks. You work for your money in the private sector and my father and family members and anyone else who works in the public sector works for their money. We are both taxed and our taxes go towards both the private sector and public sector.

@Alex Daniels

And who the hell are you to say what is important and what what isn't. So education, healthcare, technology, infrastructure, protection, hospitals, energy, research and development, science, etc. Those aren't important. I guess your taxes rather go towards the rich CEO's who will just put their tax cuts provided by tax payers in private bank accounts instead of providing jobs. Only so these Crony-Corporatists can end up destroying our financial system and economy like they always do. That is right, I said that, I spoke a truth. Most recessions and depressions have been caused by corporate greed and deregulation. Get your facts straight.